A major figure in French opera, Natalie Dessay is one of those whose voice has marked a generation. A soprano with a meteoric rise, from the " Queen of the Night " to the great heroines of the repertoire, she has made a bold shift in recent years: leaving opera to explore theater, musicals, and a different way of being on stage. She is currently triumphing in Jules Styne's " Gypsy, " where she shares the stage with her daughter, Neïma Naouri (at the Théâtre de Caen until December 31). In an interview with La French Touch, she reflects on that word, both intimate and universal—courage—which permeates her life as an artist as much as her personal choices.

The French Touch: When you think of the word "courage", what is the first image or memory that comes to mind?

Natalie Dessay: Strangely enough, I immediately think back to my vocal cord problem. I had two operations, in 2002 and then in 2004. Before and after these operations, I sometimes went on stage without knowing what was wrong, knowing full well that it wasn't working as usual. I don't know if it was courage… but it was painful, yes.

FT: In your early days, what required the most courage from you?

ND: Stage fright. It's always been a real nightmare for me, and it's ruined my life a lot.

FT: Did you make it an engine? An adversary? A companion?

ND: No. I didn't succeed. Stage fright diminishes me, takes away my pleasure, stunts me, shrinks me.

FT: Is there a role that represents for you a pinnacle of interpretive courage?

ND: Not really. It's the daily work that requires courage: long, repetitive, tedious. I enjoy the preparation, but it's an effort that takes years. Getting on stage, once you're ready, is almost the easiest part.

FT: It's a marathon, not a sprint.

ND: Yes. The hardest part is to get into it every day, to be patient so that the technique takes hold and becomes second nature, until you no longer ask yourself "how to do it?".

FT: The courage of training, then.

ND: Exactly, the endurance of training.

FT: In your career, have you felt that certain artistic boldness required, for a woman, a particular courage?

ND: In opera, women are very prominent and celebrated. Admittedly, their stories often end badly. Catherine Clément clearly demonstrated this in her book " Opera or the Defeat of Women ," but socially, the status of the female singer is highly valued, sometimes even more so than that of men.

FT: What have you learned from these heroines, tragic or courageous?

ND: I realize that I have sung a lot of 19th century operas, and the vision of women, by all these men and librettists, is often the same: either mad, or naive… They never come out on top.

FT: Few of them break the pattern?

ND: Very few. Tosca, a strong woman, ends up committing suicide. In " La Traviata ," she tries to escape, but her past catches up with her. Even Alcina… Heroines who triumph are rare.

FT: And roles written by women?

ND: There are none in the 19th century… Even Carmen, a free woman, is punished for being so.

FT: Can the public give courage, or take it away?

ND: For me, no, the public doesn't intervene in this.

FT: Courage is also about metamorphosis: changing your voice, leaving opera, exploring theatre and musical comedy… How does one prepare for such a decision?

ND: It was clear to me from the age of twenty: at fifty, I would give up opera to pursue theater. I had thirty years to prepare for it. What I hadn't anticipated was that I would also do musicals. American musicals, the Broadway kind, made me dream, but they were practically nonexistent in France. There were a few exceptions, like " Starmania ," and major productions like " Notre-Dame de Paris " or " The Ten Commandments ," but in a very specific genre. What really attracted me was the American musical, which was absent from the French stage at the time.

FT: Has any project marked a truly courageous turning point?

ND: Playing Rose in the musical " Gypsy " last year, and Mrs. Lovett in " Sweeney Todd ." That, yes, was courageous: everything was in English, Cockney accent included. For a year and a half, that's all I thought about and did.

FT: What's the scariest thing when you're starting almost from scratch?

ND: The fear of not succeeding. And besides, I haven't succeeded as much as I'd like. I'm at the beginning of an exploration. It's strange to say when you have leading roles, but in musical theatre, I'm a novice singer given roles appropriate to my age. So, in theory, I shouldn't be a novice anymore.

FT: With stage experience, though.

ND: Yes, that makes up for it. But for the rest, I'm still learning.

FT: In your life, what name has been synonymous with courage?

Note: Martin Luther King. A major figure of the 20th century, beyond the issue of race. An embodiment of equality, civil rights, and human rights.

FT: And in your own life, how does that resonate?

ND: It's not directly embodied… but it inspires me. It's a pacifist figure, and that's essential for me.

FT: Is there an artistic field you still dream of exploring, and that intimidates you?

ND: Musical theatre. I'm exploring it, but it still impresses me. And theatre, obviously.

FT: Have you ever been afraid of no longer being up to the task? What allowed you to overcome this fear?

ND: By changing direction. When I no longer felt at home in the opera, I knew I had to move on. It took real courage… but also a vital necessity. And I was able to do it because I had a husband who continued to work, to be an opera singer: I could afford to earn much less without worry. Changing your life is good, but you have to live.

FT: And when does pleasure return in these transformations?

ND: When progress arrives, even minimal. When, suddenly, one succeeds at something impossible the day before, when the body understands.

FT: Courage evolves with age. Today, in your personal life, where does it reside?

ND: In the effort to improve. And the older we get, the more rigid we become, both physically and mentally. I work a lot on my body. I'd like to have the courage to work more on my mind, to make that more flexible too.

FT: I imagine that working with your daughter helps you.

ND: Yes. I find this generation extraordinary. Not just my children: those in their 20s and 30s. Inventive, creative, courageous. They're arriving in an incredibly harsh world, so unforgiving, with less hope for a better society than we had. And yet, they move forward, open-minded, tenacious. I admire them enormously.

FT: What would you like to pass on to young female artists? For example, how to hold their own without apologizing.

ND: They don't need me, and that's wonderful. They know they can dare to do anything. The only rule is to follow their desires.

FT: One last question, what personal act of daring do you still have to accomplish?

ND: Learning to sing musical theatre.

FT: The timing is right in France, where we are seeing more and more musicals featuring performers from the world of opera, such as, currently, " The Young Girls of Rochefort "...

ND: Yes, but we're not quite there yet.

FT: What is "the thing"?

ND: Work. You can't just become a musical theatre singer overnight if you come from an operatic background. It takes time. But the younger generation learns both at the same time: for them, no problem.