French Touch: Where does the immersive theater ?

Yann Ramirez: From the point of view of geographical origins, Japan appears as a precursor in the way of involving the spectator more, of opening up the fields of action. In Japan, the actors of the performing Arts work a lot on the polysensory aspect. That's where the escape game comes from too... Other pioneering countries in live performance: the United States, in Europe, Hungary... More generally I would say that this emergence, in France in particular, of immersive theater shows is only a logical continuation: society increasingly favors hybridization, whether in sports, spirituality, etc., and allows us to break away from dogmas. The immersive show is part of this movement.

FT: Does the experience of immersive theatre as it originally existed, for example in the productions of the British pioneer Punch Drunk, with their emblematic show "Sleep no more", an adaptation of "Macbeth" shown for the first time in 2011, allow the spectator, in particular through its unpredictable character, to make "the world unavailable" in the sense understood by the German philosopher Harmut Rosa?

YR: Yes, absolutely. And besides, you used the right term: experience. It is a key word today for any organizer. For example, a starred chef seeks to produce an experience for his clients. The experience implies being unique and ephemeral. To think that we are the only ones to live this moment reinforces the phenomenon. The society of spectacle and consumption has become global, the experience allows, in the face of competition of offers, to singularize a practice like theater.

FT: During the first version of this Punch Drunk show, "Sleep No More", the spectators found themselves, for the duration of the experience, immersed, masked, isolated from their group of friends and deprived of their phone. In a society where everything is just a click away thanks to technology, this can cause vertigo...

YR: During the experience, the spectator will go through several events. He will certainly feel fear, and even a whole spectrum of stimuli. He may even be shocked... But, deep down, he knows that he is not at risk and that he is living a parenthesis. That is the paradox. You go there to lose control, while knowing that the experience has an end.

FT: Today, immersive theater has become more mainstream. In fact, the term “immersive” is used all the time. How do you explain this success?

YR: THEimmersive experience plays on different levels. The field of possibilities opens up, particularly through the spatiotemporal framework, since visitors are invited to wander with a certain freedom. Polysensoriality, that is to say the fact of soliciting several senses, comes into play. I believe a lot in the idea of ​​a cyclical time. We are at a stage of civilization where the progressive myth is crumbling and disenchanting us. Rational modern ideas are facing a return of various beliefs. The spatiotemporal framework proposed by this experience allows an exit from anxiety-provoking daily life; an exit delimited in time and space. And I see precisely, in immersive theater, the need to reconnect with rites of passage within groups, as could exist in traditional societies, which act as a social function, that of linking members together, with a common sharing. Whereas in the modern era, the expert actor is separated from the spectators. The immersive show – and its success – shakes up this code. Could it be in the name of living together? The fact remains that the notion of parenthesis that we have spoken about – we even say “enchanted” parenthesis – makes the experience ephemeral! It is similar to what the visitor can feel and experience in an amusement park like Disneyland. During the visit, the public exchanges a certain kindness, until returning to the station platform where reality takes over. As soon as we attend a show, and in particular an immersive show, there is this sharing through smiles and glances that cross until the parenthesis closes. If we kept the very essence of this sharing, we could re-energize the social body, the interactions between the members of the social group forming a body, avoid or reduce the tensions generated by daily life, but for that we would have to remain in a relatively intimate sphere.

FT: What you mention about this desire to share reminds me of opening ceremony of the recent Paris Olympics. It was held for the first time in the heart of a city. Can we talk about an immersive show?

YR: What is important in immersion is the role of the object. I am sensitive to the idea that the object, the scene, makes sense. During this ceremony, the object was the Parisian heritage, the Conciergerie, the Eiffel Tower, the bridges…. We saw these monuments become the actors of a show offering immersion. But the ephemeral aspect escaped no one: the show was global, since viewed all over the world, it clashed with the most diverse sensibilities and gave rise to a lot of controversies. The “enchanted” parenthesis closed just as quickly.

FT: In this immersion, did the meteorological episodes of rain bring to those who were there this more intimate aspect?

YR: Above all, rain brought an essential element to the immersive show and even to any social object that wants to be attractive. It brought drama. It is a dimension of the experience that even the director missed.

FT: The Polaris production company, which specializes in immersive shows, recently invested in a historic mansion in the Latin Quarter in Paris to put on its own shows. What does that mean to you?

YR: The historical object offers experience! Experience being the history of the place and its reality. Reality participates and gives stronger sensations than a fake setting. The desired effect is, in my opinion, to capture more of the public's attention.

FT: What limits can be set to this? Would the public agree to attend immersive shows inside historical monuments such as the Château de Versailles or Notre-Dame?

YR: Each place has its own coherence. It is clear that for some, seeing the equestrian events of the Olympic Games take place in the Château de Versailles had something iconoclastic about it. But in the end it passed entirely…. I would not say the same thing for the Notre Dame Cathedral. It is less obvious because of its sacred character, and even more so since the fire which strengthened our attachment. I am not a believer, nor baptized, and yet I contributed financially to its restoration... I would certainly not want to see a burlesque show given at Notre-Dame, for example.

FT: Some video games already take over such monuments. For Notre Dame, this is the case of Assassin's Creed (from the French Ubisoft). Players can evolve in a visual representation close to that of Notre Dame…

YR: There is a certain public that is afraid to enter a library or a museum when it is free… We also know that this fear disappears once the public is familiar with the place. The gateway for an uninitiated public can be school, a television show, a film, or indeed a video game...

FT: What limits can we place on it when the scenario takes over the story?

YN: It is certain that the message gets across better if it is in an entertainment format. I can tell you an anecdote. I visited Puy du Fou during the commemoration of the centenary of the First World War. A trench had been reproduced, with actors playing the role of soldiers. Visitors had access to it during the scenes of the show. The multi-sensory aspect was therefore fully in play. You could feel the horror of the bombings... At that moment, I crossed paths with a soldier, then with a nurse who was treating another soldier... At that precise moment, you no longer think about anything. I went there with a cognitive bias, because I knew the political orientation of the park, but there, for a few minutes, there was only emotion. So, yes, of course, immersive can manipulate opinion.

FT: Do you see, from a sociological point of view, immersive spectacle as competition for traditional theatre?

YR: This could be the case if the immersive show ended up becoming total and allowed to offer the maximum of sensations and experience, through polysensoriality, acting, proximity between actor and spectator. But when we want more depth, we return to the classics. Let's draw a parallel with music festivals: rock fans quickly get tired of generalist festivals that are a bit of a catch-all. They then return to more intimate events where they feel like they are among connoisseurs.

FT: It is easy to understand what the viewer can find more in immersive theater. But what does he lose?

YN: Immersive theater is more engaging, it involves co-construction between the protagonists. It shakes up. You are no longer helped by this imagination that leads you to a classical theater or an opera. The experience is therefore less accessible for an audience that needs to be guided and to let itself be carried away. In theme parks where the immersive aspect is very present, the "imaginers", those who create the attractions, work a lot on this aspect, so that there are fewer demands on the visitor, both intellectually and physically. Disneyland is immersive, but not too much. This is intentional, in order to keep visitors safe. Disney has understood that it is important not to shake up the crowds too much.